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wheezie wayne
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wheezie wayne

Number of posts : 691
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PostSubject: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSat Nov 25, 2006 8:08 am

well went to the new vet a lil bit ago, rico has demodox mange. the same mang my old vet checked twice for and said he didint have. the same thing his eye got red from and said he needed to go on a special vet diet, i had to leave rico there over night for his first treatment, first time I've ever left him anywhere without me. I'll be goin to the old vet tomorrow to give those bastards a piece of my mind.
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSat Nov 25, 2006 9:50 am

Oh no!! Is he really bad off? Sometimes skin scrapes don't detect they have to actually do blood work sometimes. Not to make excuses but I went through this with Triton. First they said it was a skin infection then it got worse and worse and skin started to smell gave me two different meds for him then finally did another test and it was indeed mange so don't flip to bad cause it can be mis diagnosed.
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSat Nov 25, 2006 9:52 am

A raw diet is really good for mange. It will help the immune system build back up. Those dips and meds will only make it worse. Triton was almost completely bald and nothing was working another breeder told me about the raw diet and we got him back to par and I rehomed him to a pet home for free, also told them about his condition but he hasn't had any problems since. He does still have that foul smell on his coat though.
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schismatickennels
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSat Nov 25, 2006 10:57 am

I really really feel your pain, as I have lost two dogs to this disease. My biggest advice, take Christie's advice on the raw diet. I didn't or wasn't informed of it. Get the dog neutered, demotetic mange is an immunity problem, carried on from heredity. Read, Read, Read, Read. Everything you can about it, but becareful with what you try. The vet treatments are usually very costly and not worth the efforts. Oatmeal baths work wonders. Good luck to you and keep us posted.
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wheezie wayne
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wheezie wayne

Number of posts : 691
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSat Nov 25, 2006 11:27 am

hes on the raw diet now the dips (all 3) are gonna cost me about 150
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wheezie wayne
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wheezie wayne

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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSat Nov 25, 2006 11:56 am

the vet said almost all the dogs recover. yall a freakin me out
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YJSONLY
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSat Nov 25, 2006 9:29 pm

i will ask my buddy what kind of mange that his pit had.....he gave ivomec everday for like 6 weeks ......what the vet told him to give it...and its seems to be clearing up..... will post up later
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Pantera2006
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 2:48 am

My friends dog got that and died... BUT... If you stay on it and get the treatment that the dog need, He will be fine!!! My friend had kids and not alot of money so when she took the dog in, it was too late... She did try tho, and i do understand.. Shes a great mom and her kids came first.. But if you have the money, then do what ya gotta do!!! Very Happy
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wheezie wayne
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wheezie wayne

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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 3:13 am

i dont have kids except for rico my 4 legeed hellyan lol. i dont care how much it is ive already invested tons of money. i just want him to be healthy
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 3:21 am

wheezie wayne wrote:
i dont have kids except for rico my 4 legeed hellyan lol. i dont care how much it is ive already invested tons of money. i just want him to be healthy
That's really all that counts in the end. I have a pup i breed that came down with mange and she is recovering fine. She has since been spayed and on the raw diet now recovery is very possible you just have to build the immune system back up and the raw diet and ivermec will do that. I will say again those dips, shampoos, and pills did absolutely no good for me but somethings work for others that don't work in another case.
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Pantera2006
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 4:35 am

there ya go... Just do what ya gotta do!!! I have kids so i know that if something like that happens, you gotta nip it in the butt, It could cost alot in the end....
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trejos kennels
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trejos kennels

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PostSubject: my 2cents   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 8:58 am

well as a vet tech this is the best info that I can give you on the subject hopefully it will help ya!! and hopefully he will be better soon....

Demodectic Mange is very common and is usually founds in puppies, on the face, head, neck, ears, chest, or front legs/paws. The skin often looks bumpy and rough and may even be damp or oozy. Later pustules resembling acne cysts can develop as the inflamed skin pores/hair follicles get clogged from debris from the mites and become infected and puss-filled.
It is not contagious to humans and it has nothing to do with living conditions, but it is the hardest (and more often, takes the longest) to treat. All puppies are born with them, transmitted from the mother- the weaker the puppies are, the more susceptible they are to have a problem with them. Demodex mites are found in every mammal with hair- including humans. A dog with a healthy immune system usually won't have visible signs (no visible signs or symptoms, usually no problem). When the immune system is low, the mites uncontrollably start dominating.
And sometimes it may be brought on by "triggers", triggers can be anything from stress, poor diet, bad living conditions, teething, loneliness, getting their vaccines, moving to a new home, a change in routine, departure of a family member, grief, steroids, antibiotics, and chemotherapy drugs, even sadness. Some people don't understand that an animal has "feelings" just like humans... They are affected by some of the same conditions that make us sick as well. Understanding that certain things may inevitably cause the onset of demodectic mange, you can take steps to avoid them...
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wheezie wayne
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wheezie wayne

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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 7:48 pm

got any info on post treatment? what to do afterw first dip?
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redsky
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 8:07 pm

Good post Trejos! As far as the after treatment best thing is lots of love and attention just making the dog as comfortable as possible because most times as posted mange comes out due to stress or what your feeding could not be so good and break the immune system down. Him being a raw should help out greatly! Here is a very good link on raw diets and the appropriate amounts to feed (feeding the correct amount is VERY importanat):
http://www.rawdogranch.com/musclemeat.htm
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schismatickennels
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm

I personally wouldn't use the dips. I tried them on 2 dogs, and they weren't successful only made the condition worse. You can try nu-stock, this seemed to clear some of it up. Oatmeal baths. Raw diet. DEFINATELY spay or nueter (Can't remember which if this male or female) this animal. Do NOT breed. This is a hereditary disease.

I'm not a vet tech, I'm working on my license now, BUT, I can only tell you things from my experience. I've heard people say that it can in fact go away, but I didn't have any luck, and just because it does go away once, does NOT mean you will not have another breakout.

Alot of explanations make absolutely no sense to me, if this is a break down in immunity, then why is it that I had a litter of pups with complete break down of immune system and never did I have a problem with demotex mange in these pups. The two dogs that I did get from another breeder, ended up showing the first signs of demotectic mange right before their heat cycle began.

These aren't words I copied from a website or a vet book. These are my own.

There are two types of demotetic mange, localized, and generalized. Localized will be mainly the facial area, it can spread, beacuse most of the time this is where the mange generally starts. It cannot be passed to humans, or other dogs, as it is not contageious.

Generalized is more than the face and legs, it will move into the chest area and past the neck, and your dog may lose its all of its hair. I personally had no problems with puss or nodules, but I also gave oatmeal baths everyday.

I don't know what to tell you about post, I put both of these dogs down because, I wasn't willing to watch my babies suffer any longer. One I had for almost 5 months, that continued to break out horribly, and the other developed it, and lost all the hair on her face and legs within a 3 week period. She was completely my baby, and I wasn't going to watch her suffer.

Regardless of what you are told, in my opinion if you are a breeder and care about your stock. DO NOT BREED THE ANIMAL THAT HAS IT. It is a genetic disease, it will eventually come out in your pups. Maybe not the first litter, but it can infact come out down the line in breeding. Even if your dog never ever had a visual sign of the demotetic mange, it can infact end up that your pups have it if it is in their genetics. So no one is immune.

I'd love to hear Andy's wifes take on this.

Sorry if these words that I am telling you scare you, but I Know them to be true with my experiences.

Michelle
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schismatickennels
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 9:19 pm

I urge you to read your butt off about demodetic mange, so I'm going to give you a bunch of websites to look over and read. Sometimes i've found that the internet is a good source of reading on different areas, and sometimes I found them contridicting. You have to base it on your dogs condition and what is effective.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/demodectic_mange.html

http://www.barkbytes.com/medical/med0019.htm

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1589&articleid=729

http://www.dr-dan.com/red.htm

http://www.vetinfo.com/dpdemx.html

http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_demodecticmange.htm

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/mange1.html#Demodectic

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=630&S=1&EVetID=0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mange

http://www.italiangreyhound.org/health/demodex.html

http://www.animalhealthchannel.com/fleasticksmites/mites/demodectic.shtml

Man there are so many websites out there, TONS and TONS of information about demodetic mange. If you dog doesn't look like those pictures I strongly urge you to get a second opinion or bloodwork done.

This is one of my dogs that had demodetic mange.
mange Gigi
mange Picture027-1

I did NOT put her in particular down though. Animal control was called to my house after a neighbor saw her on a ripline. They had her loaded before I could beg them not to take her. I had spent over 600 dollars in treatments, and we had her spay. I had all her paperwork from the vets and they still would not let me keep her.

When the second came down with it, I had her put down after 3 weeks, because the disease had eaten her skin and hair so badly. I'm not urging you do this, I'm urging you to get the animal fixed, and to keep your head up and follow everyone's advice.

I am very very passionate about educating on demotetic mange. I am very passionate about letting you know if it does become localized you have a fight on your hands. If you got this dog from a breeder, please let them know that the dog has demotetic mange, it could be detremental to his breedings in the future.
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 9:41 pm

Agree that a dog that has had problems with mange should not be bred but then again a vet will tell you that all female dogs carry it! Then the question becomes well !!!!! should we breed at all? I'm not trying to undermind you Michelle you know I think highly of you and we share most of the same beliefs. I wouldn't breed a dog that has had visible and known issues why i gave my male away but when you think about it your put at an ethical point where you start thinking well if all females carry the mite should I breed at all because the parents don't have to ever have had an issue for a pup to have it like with Nani! Her mother has never had the problem in what i know of the line and her dad I know the line inside and out of and has never had any dogs off the last five to six generations have issues with the skin of any sort. heck I still have contact with people that own the last three generations of the line and none have problems of any sort (well they like to kill cats but other than that nothing).
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schismatickennels
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 9:53 pm

redsky wrote:
Agree that a dog that has had problems with mange should not be bred but then again a vet will tell you that all female dogs carry it! Then the question becomes well !!!!! should we breed at all? I'm not trying to undermind you Michelle you know I think highly of you and we share most of the same beliefs. I wouldn't breed a dog that has had visible and known issues why i gave my male away but when you think about it your put at an ethical point where you start thinking well if all females carry the mite should I breed at all because the parents don't have to ever have had an issue for a pup to have it like with Nani! Her mother has never had the problem in what i know of the line and her dad I know the line inside and out of and has never had any dogs off the last five to six generations have issues with the skin of any sort. heck I still have contact with people that own the last three generations of the line and none have problems of any sort (well they like to kill cats but other than that nothing).

The ultimate question, is should we breed at all. I personally would not breed a bitch that is proven to throw pups that have red mange, but that's on me. I believe it is completely genetics and not a break down of immunity at all. But as we've talked about we could debate it all day long, I really think someone should sit down and do an evaluation of it, and find out where and what actually happens. Everything is contradicting, don't breed, do breed, it can be passed it can't be passed. I think we are all so confused about it, that none of us really know what to do. I just read what I can and take that reading and put it with my experiences with it. Its the only way I learn.
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 9:59 pm

schismatickennels wrote:
redsky wrote:
Agree that a dog that has had problems with mange should not be bred but then again a vet will tell you that all female dogs carry it! Then the question becomes well !!!!! should we breed at all? I'm not trying to undermind you Michelle you know I think highly of you and we share most of the same beliefs. I wouldn't breed a dog that has had visible and known issues why i gave my male away but when you think about it your put at an ethical point where you start thinking well if all females carry the mite should I breed at all because the parents don't have to ever have had an issue for a pup to have it like with Nani! Her mother has never had the problem in what i know of the line and her dad I know the line inside and out of and has never had any dogs off the last five to six generations have issues with the skin of any sort. heck I still have contact with people that own the last three generations of the line and none have problems of any sort (well they like to kill cats but other than that nothing).

The ultimate question, is should we breed at all. I personally would not breed a bitch that is proven to throw pups that have red mange, but that's on me. I believe it is completely genetics and not a break down of immunity at all. But as we've talked about we could debate it all day long, I really think someone should sit down and do an evaluation of it, and find out where and what actually happens. Everything is contradicting, don't breed, do breed, it can be passed it can't be passed. I think we are all so confused about it, that none of us really know what to do. I just read what I can and take that reading and put it with my experiences with it. Its the only way I learn.

Yep your right we can talk about it till we are blue in the face. I think our opinions differ on it because you've been so negatively affected by it while I have had two dogs rebound from it. Saying that both the dogs are altered now and off two totally different lines. One dog I bought and the other i bred. I wouldn't breed that particular bitch that had mange no but I'm not going to say I wouldn't breed the mother cause the bad immune system could have come from the dad but then you dont' think it's the immune system but to me how come all dogs don't have an outbreak if it's anything other then a bad immunes system? I mean all bitches carry the mite so why aren't they all messed up? Stuff is very conflicting but unless I know without a doubt that it came from my bitch i'm not going to spay her but that's me. Now if she produces several pups with it and not just the case of one (which is the case with me) then yea I will spay her cause she has produced several with it but again if it's just one pup out of 11 then no i'm not spaying her. Although Nani's mom is going to be spayed anyways but that isn't why she is being spayed.
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schismatickennels
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 10:06 pm

lol this is why your my favorite doggie friend Christie...no matter what opinions we both expres we've both had different experiences with it. Everything is an exception in the dog world. hopefully MY opinions are just paranois and I hope that it can be taken care of. I never wish my experiences on anyone. I hope it never happens the way it did for me. I can only tell anyone what I have done and what I will do in the future. Everyone breeds, cares, and feels for their dogs differently. This is why we have such a vast variety of the breed now. Coming into the world of Pit Bulls with an open mind, and education is the only way that our breed is going to survive.
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wheezie wayne
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wheezie wayne

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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 10:09 pm

appreciate the web sites, ive already done about 10 oe so hrs of research on mange i just wana talk to someone one on one that has been threw it. thats one thing i go to forums for
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wheezie wayne
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wheezie wayne

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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 10:14 pm

redsky wrote:
Good post Trejos! As far as the after treatment best thing is lots of love and attention just making the dog as comfortable as possible because most times as posted mange comes out due to stress or what your feeding could not be so good and break the immune system down. Him being a raw should help out greatly! Here is a very good link on raw diets and the appropriate amounts to feed (feeding the correct amount is VERY importanat):
http://www.rawdogranch.com/musclemeat.htm


ricos been on the raw diet for almost 2 weeks but thanks for the site
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 10:17 pm

Wayne I think once people have been in the breed or any breed long enough they go throw just about everything! There are no exceptions we all go through happy days and heck days.

Your welcome my point in posting it was to make sure your feeding him the correct amounts because the two dogs that had issues starting healing shortly after the raw diet and two weeks is a long time.
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schismatickennels
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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 10:40 pm

wheezie wayne wrote:
appreciate the web sites, ive already done about 10 oe so hrs of research on mange i just wana talk to someone one on one that has been threw it. thats one thing i go to forums for

That's why I was offering up my advice. Good luck.
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wheezie wayne
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wheezie wayne

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PostSubject: Re: mange   mange Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2006 11:16 pm

i appreciate all of yalls advice i take each one to heart.
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